Attended a memorial service for a friend who inspired me. She, in addition to many things, was a contemplative and a mystic. I remember decades ago when people used to say that about me. I spent the rest of the day and into church when I realized that it is a practice! What followed was a fraught conversation with my husband about it. I ruminated on it and realized that for the last decade I’ve been doing what I could to help my husband manage his life (he’s 90,and diminishing in all the ways normal). I’ve been angry for at least a year over his management of his hearing aids. I’ve lost perspective.
I remember when I used to write in a journal every day and how my thoughts often turned to God.
I’m rambling. Sorry. I’m obviously in the Cave,,and longing to decorate it😁.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, Peggy, and for the difficulty you've had caring for your husband lately. When I'm in a place of sorrow, I find journalling through it to be very comforting. I hope you are able to come back to that practice in this season!
I LOVE Anne Lamott. I went through a whole phase years and years ago where I read Bird by Bird, Traveling Mercies, Operating Instructions, and one of her novels in quick succession. I return to Bird and Mercies periodically and always find something useful for where I'm at. At the time I first encountered her, her admonishment that if people wanted you to write kindly about them then they should have behaved better really struck a chord with me. I felt very ashamed and afraid to write the truth of my life in those days, so her defiance kind of pulled my finger out of the duke and it all came flooding out. Now, years later, I find writing kindly, or at least compassionately, is a worthy, central challenge for me. But for awhile there, I really leaned on Anne's permission to write at all and was grateful for it.
I love reading this. I discovered Anne's work when I was very, very iffy about christianity in general but over time she really won me over. It felt like she was telling the truth, and in turn, gave me an open door to start practicing how to tell myself the truth, too — kind of like what you described above. One of the things I also love about her is her posture toward her publisher and being consumed in the media, in general. I feel like her resistance also gave me some permission. She's called her publisher a "rascally rabbit" more than once, and that gives me such a good feeling. 😁
It didn't fit within these responses, but I had a similar response to her "faith journey" when I was a young Christian. The fact that part of her faith story is that she described God as following her around like a cat until she finally said, "Fuck it, you can come in," blew mind mind. It was just so similar to how my mind works, and I found it delightful.
I'm on a similar journey re the "if people wanted you to write kindly about them then they should have behaved better" quote. Age and therapy have upped my compassion toward some people in my life, so I've been able to draft a much more nuanced story about our relationship.
This oft-quoted line of hers has encouraged me to write things that I otherwise would not have written. Posting publicly is another barrier but at least I have got these things off my chest
OMG this: "I can’t tell you how many times I’ve dashed from the shower to quickly write something down before I lose it..." The whole paragraph! I've done all those things.
A big smile came across my face finding another friend whose process just comes out and can't be stopped. I've started talking to Siri in text messages to myself because I've found that my mouth can get the words out faster than my hand sometimes. But I always feel weird about needing to be alone while talking out loud so this is a nice reminder to get a little notebook and keep it with me. *started searching through desk drawers to find one..*
I enjoyed this so much. Thank you Jen and Amanda! <3
Yes, I've learned to embrace the mess of handwritten notes on paper, audio notes, Notes notes in my phone and so on. I've found it actually makes my narrative voice in my head more polished because once something goes from my brain and is then spit out into "form," I find that if it was meant to stay, it's also still in my head somewhere... 🫶
"Words spilling out of my brain" is definitely how I write too! The openings of multiple of my plays have been written in a Notes file on my phone while I was sitting on the subway, or lying in bed, or anywhere when a dog was sitting on me and my computer was out of reach. As far as I can tell, there's no real external trigger that causes this—it's just whatever I've been mulling over in the back of my mind suddenly ready to spark back up as a conscious thought.
Thanks Amanda and Jen for this great interview! How awesome that your son loved Anne L's book and is following her (and your) lead, that's what our world needs! It's a great reminder for me to stick with that lousy first draft. I'd say of all the writing skills one can acquire that seems to be the only one I'm getting better at🤣
I’ve been thinking about rereading bird by bird recently - this feels like a great nudge to do it. I love how much music is a part of your process too. I relate. I usually keep ideas in a long haphazard list on my notes app, but I think I’m going to switch to analogue so I can flip back and see what sparks I had a long the way. Lovely interview - thank you!
It was great to read it again after all these years! I've tried keeping my ideas list digitally, but it doesn't work for me. I've realized I brainstorm better on paper, but I can draft in a google doc.
ooo a huge shout out to Jen! I didn’t know who she was and now I do. She suggested the opening sentence for my essay about acceptance (and about Alex Dobrenko). Her sentence: “I have a writing crush on a younger man.”
Loved this one and love the whole Cave of the Heart series. Was curious how you select writers to interview? I'd love to share my thoughts - would've emailed you but couldn't find an email address? - if you have any interest.
Short bio:
Kathryn Vercillo is a San Francisco author/artist exploring the complex relationship between art and mental health. She celebrates art as therapy/catharsis while also looking at the shadow side: how art hinders/harms and how mental health symptoms impact creative process, content, medium, productivity, identity and business. She comes to this work through lived experience supplements that with an academic background (MA in Psychological Studies, working towards an MA in Visual and Critical Studies), interviews with contemporary artists, and research into art and mental health history. Kathryn has authored ten books including The Artist’s Mind: The Creative Lives and Mental Health of Famous Artists and Crochet Saved My Life: The Mental and Physical Health Benefits of Crochet. She has also written extensively for both print and online publications, curated collaborative art projects raising awareness about depression/suicide, and writes a subscription-based newsletter on Substack called Create Me Free. When she’s not immersed in these passions, she’s usually found snuggling with her large rescue dogs.
Thank you so much for reaching out, Kathryn! I am trying to get a mix of different writers, artists and creatives for Cave of the Heart. Right now, I've got a pretty long list of folks lined up to publish, but I'd be glad to add you to the list of interviewees for the future! 🫶
Attended a memorial service for a friend who inspired me. She, in addition to many things, was a contemplative and a mystic. I remember decades ago when people used to say that about me. I spent the rest of the day and into church when I realized that it is a practice! What followed was a fraught conversation with my husband about it. I ruminated on it and realized that for the last decade I’ve been doing what I could to help my husband manage his life (he’s 90,and diminishing in all the ways normal). I’ve been angry for at least a year over his management of his hearing aids. I’ve lost perspective.
I remember when I used to write in a journal every day and how my thoughts often turned to God.
I’m rambling. Sorry. I’m obviously in the Cave,,and longing to decorate it😁.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, Peggy, and for the difficulty you've had caring for your husband lately. When I'm in a place of sorrow, I find journalling through it to be very comforting. I hope you are able to come back to that practice in this season!
I LOVE Anne Lamott. I went through a whole phase years and years ago where I read Bird by Bird, Traveling Mercies, Operating Instructions, and one of her novels in quick succession. I return to Bird and Mercies periodically and always find something useful for where I'm at. At the time I first encountered her, her admonishment that if people wanted you to write kindly about them then they should have behaved better really struck a chord with me. I felt very ashamed and afraid to write the truth of my life in those days, so her defiance kind of pulled my finger out of the duke and it all came flooding out. Now, years later, I find writing kindly, or at least compassionately, is a worthy, central challenge for me. But for awhile there, I really leaned on Anne's permission to write at all and was grateful for it.
I love reading this. I discovered Anne's work when I was very, very iffy about christianity in general but over time she really won me over. It felt like she was telling the truth, and in turn, gave me an open door to start practicing how to tell myself the truth, too — kind of like what you described above. One of the things I also love about her is her posture toward her publisher and being consumed in the media, in general. I feel like her resistance also gave me some permission. She's called her publisher a "rascally rabbit" more than once, and that gives me such a good feeling. 😁
It didn't fit within these responses, but I had a similar response to her "faith journey" when I was a young Christian. The fact that part of her faith story is that she described God as following her around like a cat until she finally said, "Fuck it, you can come in," blew mind mind. It was just so similar to how my mind works, and I found it delightful.
Yes! I don’t consider myself a Christian, though I was certainly raised that way. But Anne’s way of talking about faith has always moved me.
I'm on a similar journey re the "if people wanted you to write kindly about them then they should have behaved better" quote. Age and therapy have upped my compassion toward some people in my life, so I've been able to draft a much more nuanced story about our relationship.
This oft-quoted line of hers has encouraged me to write things that I otherwise would not have written. Posting publicly is another barrier but at least I have got these things off my chest
Always, always, the shitty first draft. 💗
I can so relate to this. Getting ideas in the oddest of places. Hehe.
I love LaMott. I think the metaphor for the title resonates most for me.
Congrats to your son completing his novel!
OMG this: "I can’t tell you how many times I’ve dashed from the shower to quickly write something down before I lose it..." The whole paragraph! I've done all those things.
A big smile came across my face finding another friend whose process just comes out and can't be stopped. I've started talking to Siri in text messages to myself because I've found that my mouth can get the words out faster than my hand sometimes. But I always feel weird about needing to be alone while talking out loud so this is a nice reminder to get a little notebook and keep it with me. *started searching through desk drawers to find one..*
I enjoyed this so much. Thank you Jen and Amanda! <3
Yes, I've learned to embrace the mess of handwritten notes on paper, audio notes, Notes notes in my phone and so on. I've found it actually makes my narrative voice in my head more polished because once something goes from my brain and is then spit out into "form," I find that if it was meant to stay, it's also still in my head somewhere... 🫶
haha you could always pretend to be talking on the phone. :)
"Words spilling out of my brain" is definitely how I write too! The openings of multiple of my plays have been written in a Notes file on my phone while I was sitting on the subway, or lying in bed, or anywhere when a dog was sitting on me and my computer was out of reach. As far as I can tell, there's no real external trigger that causes this—it's just whatever I've been mulling over in the back of my mind suddenly ready to spark back up as a conscious thought.
For me, the external trigger is usually being in the middle of something where I can't write it down, like driving! LOL
Thanks Amanda and Jen for this great interview! How awesome that your son loved Anne L's book and is following her (and your) lead, that's what our world needs! It's a great reminder for me to stick with that lousy first draft. I'd say of all the writing skills one can acquire that seems to be the only one I'm getting better at🤣
With as much warmth and light that you bring, I really don't think that can be true... Maybe you should look into comedy writing... ;-)
You're funny!
And also, thank you for your kind words Amanda, that means a lot❤
Thank you for reading and commenting!
I’ve been thinking about rereading bird by bird recently - this feels like a great nudge to do it. I love how much music is a part of your process too. I relate. I usually keep ideas in a long haphazard list on my notes app, but I think I’m going to switch to analogue so I can flip back and see what sparks I had a long the way. Lovely interview - thank you!
It was great to read it again after all these years! I've tried keeping my ideas list digitally, but it doesn't work for me. I've realized I brainstorm better on paper, but I can draft in a google doc.
ooo a huge shout out to Jen! I didn’t know who she was and now I do. She suggested the opening sentence for my essay about acceptance (and about Alex Dobrenko). Her sentence: “I have a writing crush on a younger man.”
Shout-out back atcha!
Loved this one and love the whole Cave of the Heart series. Was curious how you select writers to interview? I'd love to share my thoughts - would've emailed you but couldn't find an email address? - if you have any interest.
Short bio:
Kathryn Vercillo is a San Francisco author/artist exploring the complex relationship between art and mental health. She celebrates art as therapy/catharsis while also looking at the shadow side: how art hinders/harms and how mental health symptoms impact creative process, content, medium, productivity, identity and business. She comes to this work through lived experience supplements that with an academic background (MA in Psychological Studies, working towards an MA in Visual and Critical Studies), interviews with contemporary artists, and research into art and mental health history. Kathryn has authored ten books including The Artist’s Mind: The Creative Lives and Mental Health of Famous Artists and Crochet Saved My Life: The Mental and Physical Health Benefits of Crochet. She has also written extensively for both print and online publications, curated collaborative art projects raising awareness about depression/suicide, and writes a subscription-based newsletter on Substack called Create Me Free. When she’s not immersed in these passions, she’s usually found snuggling with her large rescue dogs.
Thank you so much for reaching out, Kathryn! I am trying to get a mix of different writers, artists and creatives for Cave of the Heart. Right now, I've got a pretty long list of folks lined up to publish, but I'd be glad to add you to the list of interviewees for the future! 🫶
If it ever feels right, I would love to do an interview. But no worries if not. I look forward to seeing who else will be coming up!
Thank you Amanda & Jen ❤️ feeling both inspired and a little intimidated, which is common after reading a Cave of the Heart essay.