One, I hold particular affection, Amanda, for when you host writing teachers in this series. They've worked to language aspects of their own writing process and writing generally in ways that are so rich and useful. Thank you for this, truly.
Two, I'd never thought of PTSD as acquired neurodivergence and, honestly, it explains so much about my life to think of it that way. It removes some of the feeling of shame and brokenness. What an immeasurable gift, Jeannine. Thank you.
Hi, Asha, I saw this in notes, and just wanted to say thank you for spotlighting this. I, too, only learned about this way of seeing PTSD through my attempt to answer Amanda's question about neurodivergence. Always, always, learning.
Jeannine, I have C-PTSD, too. I'd never heard it described as acquired neurodivergence, but it makes a lot of sense. My diagnosis was a blessing in a way, because it validated my experiences growing up, and reframed my path toward healing. While I'm sad that I suffered, I also know that I gained sensitivity to others that I might not otherwise have realized. Thank you for your honesty.
How tremendously beautiful. It's eerie seeing much of your own life--especially childhood and especially the ways in which a teacher or two here and there at all those different schools can save you from disappearing under it all--reflected in this heartfelt, introspective kind of way. And I love the thoughts about poetry, attention, and complex PTSD/childhood trauma. That's really resonated for me. Maybe we're just on the cusp of finding again what writing and reading can do for self-healing.
There are so many things in this I want to highlight--just imagine me nodding my head as I read through the whole thing. The teacher I was and the student I was who felt saved by teachers both got choked up at the stories of the teachers who made such a difference. The idea of writing as a way of healing from CPTSD--redirecting hypervigilance to the page; I love this, and the way it provides a way of taking something I've viewed as a liability and turning it into an asset. I've gained so much from joining the learning community Jeannine has created at WITD, so many opportunities to play and experiment in a safe place, to make that scraps that won't directly become anything else, but become the way to things I wouldn't otherwise have been able to write.
This is such a powerful thing to hear, Rita. I have met a lot of autistic writers in the last couple years and I don't think it's a coincidence that we all have used writing as a way to exhale our truths — long before we knew that's what we were doing. For a lot of people (neurodiverse or not), the page is the strongest place we have to lean. 🧡
First, Amanda and Jeannine, thank you for this and for your presence and love for writers. So: I was a problem for my kindergarten teacher because I had taught myself to read and I kept answering questions correctly, like what did B-E-D spell because I thought she wanted an answer. We were vexed and puzzled by one another. But then I got Mrs. Martin in first grade. She let me read by myself and made it clear that I should never hide what I could do. I’m 1961, girls did were not encouraged to have career aspirations, but Mrs. Martin thought I should. She got my mother’s permission to take me on a Saturday to the University of Texas school of medicine in Galveston, about an hour away. She wanted me to see that I could be a doctor. I had no idea why we were there and was mostly fascinated by the automat that gave us sandwiches. But I didn’t have a teacher like Mrs. Martin again, who really saw me as something more than a smart little girl and who wanted me to dream big.
I love hearing about the teachers who planted a seed of hope and possibility in us. I think that's something that makes me admire teachers so much (and wish that I was one!) — their impact stretches on for decades, even from just one single interaction. xo
Apologies- I am a gusher- I love this interview— it is so full of gratitude, curiosity and insight about not only one person’s humanity but how it connects with others. And those are just a few of the reasons I am in the WITD community— we have this conversation every day, all day. I have had the benefit of many great teachers but Jeannine has been the best because she wants me to show up with my entire self- not just my brain or my wit— and she makes a safe place for that to happen.I am evolving from the proficient writer and human she described. The meticulous prompts and literary examples of essays and poetry, combined with enthusiastic feedback from her and the community just makes us hum while we take risks and leaps thinking we are just playing. But then we are better writers and humans. It reminds me of my third grade teacher who made opportunities for us in our writing and then got it out in the world. The gift of possibility rather than proscriptive practice and grooming of talent or intellect. We are on a pirate ship, not an ark, if you will (thank you for that poem, Jeannine.)
I used to live in Minnesota, and I miss those good old-fashioned midwestern thunderstorms.
"But writers want to think everything they make is somehow usable." - Oh yeah, I suffer from this. Sometimes, I believe how hard something was to write should relate directly to how good it is, so that makes it really hard to give up.
I know. I like to just tell myself that it might be usable, later, for something else! (Zero waste writing) and then it's easier to let it go for the moment.
Thank you Amanda for hosting Jeannine for this excellent interview.
Jeannine, while I am not a teacher I appreciated your heartfelt remarks about the impact your teachers had on your life. I could feel it in your response and you made me see how your life was different. What a blessing when things could have taken a different turn.
I had a teacher in Grade 6 who would read aloud to us. He was an actor so did all the voices and made us look at language and books in a different way. He had a couch behind a screen and we were allowed to go there to read during class time. I was a reader from a family of non-readers so this permission to be a reader and relate to the written and spoken word remained with me forever.
This is such a great read. Jeannine, your love for your teachers, and the enormous impact they had, is so moving. I remember three teachers very fondly myself, and I thought of them as I listened to this.
Your story of being sent to sleep in the basement, alone, broke my heart…
OK, so this: "They [writers] try too hard, but not hard enough. What I mean by this is that they insist on writing well—in the way they already know how to do—and as a result, they avoid risks...for a thing to be creative, it needs to take us somewhere new...We need to play around more [to get to]...the wild, unpredictable and sometimes painful bramble of the new." <-- THIS is why the "truly remarkable" Jeannine Ouellette has 8500 followers and 1500 paid Substack subscribers, folks: she "find[s] words that convey the world"—in this case, that of the scared-to-fail but desperate-to-please writer—in a manner that is rare and surprising, startling and beautiful, and (to use another favorite expression of hers) truer than true. A deft observer, she "see[s] the world" and us "up close as [we] really [are]," in the very way her beloved teacher-heroes saw her.
Is there any better way to pay it forward? <3 <3 <3
Right?!? Tell me about it!!!💡(So, you understand my writer girl-crush then. Hehe.) It's always fun to learn something new about and from her, even after all of the interviews she's done that I've already read. Thanks for hosting her! 🙏🏼💕
Teachers were VERY important people in my life. So much so that at age 55 I can still name every teacher I ever had from kindergarten through high school (and beyond)!
It’s hard to choose just one who was the most influential and supportive, because there were many. But Jean Krum, my 9th grade English teacher, stands out. Her husband was the pastor of our church and they were like my second parents, providing the attention and encouragement I needed to survive as a teenager. Mrs. Krum praised my writing. She attended the spelling bee I competed in and consoled me when I came in 4th place (the top three got cash prizes but I got nothing). She gave me rides home from school occasionally, and we’d go through the McDonald’s drive-thru to get cokes. Pastor Krum was my hero and inspired me to become a pastor (my former career). He officiated at my wedding and she came with him. They gave us a crock pot as a wedding gift. The Krums were also the first people I took my husband (boyfriend at that point) to meet, because I trusted their judgment and wanted to see what they thought of him. Pastor Krum preached at the worship service when my husband and I were ordained as pastors, and once again, Mrs. Krum was also there to support me.
They’re both retired now and live in a distant state, but every now and then we still email each other.
This was so touching to read first thing in the morning. I love the imagery of these two people weaving in and around the most important moments of your life. 🧡
I loved this interview just as I love everything about Jeannine and WITD and am happily a Founding member of this generous, supportive community of creatives. As for teachers in my life, there are many, but I think of my high school English teacher who saw in me a budding writer and encouraged my creative writing, writing in my high school yearbook, "My best student in ten years of teaching." Those words have stayed with me and buoy me when I am seeking outside validation of my writing (such as its worthiness for publication). It reminds me that being a good student of writing, a lifelong student, is a worthy goal in itself. And what to say about Jeannine's classroom of the WITD? There is so much on my heart. It is much more than a classroom, it's a healing, hopeful, playful world where people tenderly care for one another. It's a place where we carve out language to express ourselves, sometimes at great personal cost, often in ways that are surprising and new. Even with decades of creative writing experience behind me, much of what I am doing in WITD feels newer and bolder and braver and truer than anything I've written before. I am learning to trust myself as a writer in new ways, to poke at the places that burn. This is a community I hope to always be a part of.
Thank you, Amanda, for including me in your beautiful series!
One, I hold particular affection, Amanda, for when you host writing teachers in this series. They've worked to language aspects of their own writing process and writing generally in ways that are so rich and useful. Thank you for this, truly.
Two, I'd never thought of PTSD as acquired neurodivergence and, honestly, it explains so much about my life to think of it that way. It removes some of the feeling of shame and brokenness. What an immeasurable gift, Jeannine. Thank you.
Hi, Asha, I saw this in notes, and just wanted to say thank you for spotlighting this. I, too, only learned about this way of seeing PTSD through my attempt to answer Amanda's question about neurodivergence. Always, always, learning.
Jeannine, I have C-PTSD, too. I'd never heard it described as acquired neurodivergence, but it makes a lot of sense. My diagnosis was a blessing in a way, because it validated my experiences growing up, and reframed my path toward healing. While I'm sad that I suffered, I also know that I gained sensitivity to others that I might not otherwise have realized. Thank you for your honesty.
Yes, it just helps so much to understand myself and others!
How tremendously beautiful. It's eerie seeing much of your own life--especially childhood and especially the ways in which a teacher or two here and there at all those different schools can save you from disappearing under it all--reflected in this heartfelt, introspective kind of way. And I love the thoughts about poetry, attention, and complex PTSD/childhood trauma. That's really resonated for me. Maybe we're just on the cusp of finding again what writing and reading can do for self-healing.
Thank you, Antonia, and thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.
I love that road in the background. A cyclists dream to ride up that.. lol...
Hahaha! It's Machu Picchu in Peru!
Oh really? That's so cool. I plan to go there in the next few years :-)
There are so many things in this I want to highlight--just imagine me nodding my head as I read through the whole thing. The teacher I was and the student I was who felt saved by teachers both got choked up at the stories of the teachers who made such a difference. The idea of writing as a way of healing from CPTSD--redirecting hypervigilance to the page; I love this, and the way it provides a way of taking something I've viewed as a liability and turning it into an asset. I've gained so much from joining the learning community Jeannine has created at WITD, so many opportunities to play and experiment in a safe place, to make that scraps that won't directly become anything else, but become the way to things I wouldn't otherwise have been able to write.
This is such a powerful thing to hear, Rita. I have met a lot of autistic writers in the last couple years and I don't think it's a coincidence that we all have used writing as a way to exhale our truths — long before we knew that's what we were doing. For a lot of people (neurodiverse or not), the page is the strongest place we have to lean. 🧡
Yes, that's sure true for me. Those teachers I am so grateful for are those who opened up writing for me.
This is beautiful, Rita, and it's true about directing the hypervigilance away from where it harms and toward where it helps. I love writing with you.
First, Amanda and Jeannine, thank you for this and for your presence and love for writers. So: I was a problem for my kindergarten teacher because I had taught myself to read and I kept answering questions correctly, like what did B-E-D spell because I thought she wanted an answer. We were vexed and puzzled by one another. But then I got Mrs. Martin in first grade. She let me read by myself and made it clear that I should never hide what I could do. I’m 1961, girls did were not encouraged to have career aspirations, but Mrs. Martin thought I should. She got my mother’s permission to take me on a Saturday to the University of Texas school of medicine in Galveston, about an hour away. She wanted me to see that I could be a doctor. I had no idea why we were there and was mostly fascinated by the automat that gave us sandwiches. But I didn’t have a teacher like Mrs. Martin again, who really saw me as something more than a smart little girl and who wanted me to dream big.
I love this story!
Here’s to all the Mrs. Martins out there. What a wonderful story.
I love hearing about the teachers who planted a seed of hope and possibility in us. I think that's something that makes me admire teachers so much (and wish that I was one!) — their impact stretches on for decades, even from just one single interaction. xo
Wow, we all need some Mrs Martins in our lives. Mine was Mrs Lavelle!
How marvelous!!!
Apologies- I am a gusher- I love this interview— it is so full of gratitude, curiosity and insight about not only one person’s humanity but how it connects with others. And those are just a few of the reasons I am in the WITD community— we have this conversation every day, all day. I have had the benefit of many great teachers but Jeannine has been the best because she wants me to show up with my entire self- not just my brain or my wit— and she makes a safe place for that to happen.I am evolving from the proficient writer and human she described. The meticulous prompts and literary examples of essays and poetry, combined with enthusiastic feedback from her and the community just makes us hum while we take risks and leaps thinking we are just playing. But then we are better writers and humans. It reminds me of my third grade teacher who made opportunities for us in our writing and then got it out in the world. The gift of possibility rather than proscriptive practice and grooming of talent or intellect. We are on a pirate ship, not an ark, if you will (thank you for that poem, Jeannine.)
Never apologize for gushing!! I love hearing about what you've experienced in WITD and that you bring your whole self to the writing table. 🫶
💜
Amen, Emily!
As I hope you know down to your bone marrow, Emily, we are SO LUCKY TO HAVE YOU in WITD. You shine in the dark, every single time.
Thank you! So grateful for you and WITD. Thank you for this wonderful space, Amanda.
I used to live in Minnesota, and I miss those good old-fashioned midwestern thunderstorms.
"But writers want to think everything they make is somehow usable." - Oh yeah, I suffer from this. Sometimes, I believe how hard something was to write should relate directly to how good it is, so that makes it really hard to give up.
I know. I like to just tell myself that it might be usable, later, for something else! (Zero waste writing) and then it's easier to let it go for the moment.
Oof, thank you for this Cave of the Heart Jeannine and Amanda. This one landed as a particular gift to me today.
Thanks, Michelle! I am so glad.
Thank you Amanda for hosting Jeannine for this excellent interview.
Jeannine, while I am not a teacher I appreciated your heartfelt remarks about the impact your teachers had on your life. I could feel it in your response and you made me see how your life was different. What a blessing when things could have taken a different turn.
I had a teacher in Grade 6 who would read aloud to us. He was an actor so did all the voices and made us look at language and books in a different way. He had a couch behind a screen and we were allowed to go there to read during class time. I was a reader from a family of non-readers so this permission to be a reader and relate to the written and spoken word remained with me forever.
What a wonderful gift that teacher gave. Teachers have so much impact--or at least, they can. I love this story.
This is such a great read. Jeannine, your love for your teachers, and the enormous impact they had, is so moving. I remember three teachers very fondly myself, and I thought of them as I listened to this.
Your story of being sent to sleep in the basement, alone, broke my heart…
Jeannine is the teacher making an impact on me right now. Finding WITD has done wonders for my approach to writing.
OK, so this: "They [writers] try too hard, but not hard enough. What I mean by this is that they insist on writing well—in the way they already know how to do—and as a result, they avoid risks...for a thing to be creative, it needs to take us somewhere new...We need to play around more [to get to]...the wild, unpredictable and sometimes painful bramble of the new." <-- THIS is why the "truly remarkable" Jeannine Ouellette has 8500 followers and 1500 paid Substack subscribers, folks: she "find[s] words that convey the world"—in this case, that of the scared-to-fail but desperate-to-please writer—in a manner that is rare and surprising, startling and beautiful, and (to use another favorite expression of hers) truer than true. A deft observer, she "see[s] the world" and us "up close as [we] really [are]," in the very way her beloved teacher-heroes saw her.
Is there any better way to pay it forward? <3 <3 <3
I haven’t found better words yet. Jeannine really shines a light when she writes. ☀️
Right?!? Tell me about it!!!💡(So, you understand my writer girl-crush then. Hehe.) It's always fun to learn something new about and from her, even after all of the interviews she's done that I've already read. Thanks for hosting her! 🙏🏼💕
Teachers were VERY important people in my life. So much so that at age 55 I can still name every teacher I ever had from kindergarten through high school (and beyond)!
It’s hard to choose just one who was the most influential and supportive, because there were many. But Jean Krum, my 9th grade English teacher, stands out. Her husband was the pastor of our church and they were like my second parents, providing the attention and encouragement I needed to survive as a teenager. Mrs. Krum praised my writing. She attended the spelling bee I competed in and consoled me when I came in 4th place (the top three got cash prizes but I got nothing). She gave me rides home from school occasionally, and we’d go through the McDonald’s drive-thru to get cokes. Pastor Krum was my hero and inspired me to become a pastor (my former career). He officiated at my wedding and she came with him. They gave us a crock pot as a wedding gift. The Krums were also the first people I took my husband (boyfriend at that point) to meet, because I trusted their judgment and wanted to see what they thought of him. Pastor Krum preached at the worship service when my husband and I were ordained as pastors, and once again, Mrs. Krum was also there to support me.
They’re both retired now and live in a distant state, but every now and then we still email each other.
This was so touching to read first thing in the morning. I love the imagery of these two people weaving in and around the most important moments of your life. 🧡
I loved this interview just as I love everything about Jeannine and WITD and am happily a Founding member of this generous, supportive community of creatives. As for teachers in my life, there are many, but I think of my high school English teacher who saw in me a budding writer and encouraged my creative writing, writing in my high school yearbook, "My best student in ten years of teaching." Those words have stayed with me and buoy me when I am seeking outside validation of my writing (such as its worthiness for publication). It reminds me that being a good student of writing, a lifelong student, is a worthy goal in itself. And what to say about Jeannine's classroom of the WITD? There is so much on my heart. It is much more than a classroom, it's a healing, hopeful, playful world where people tenderly care for one another. It's a place where we carve out language to express ourselves, sometimes at great personal cost, often in ways that are surprising and new. Even with decades of creative writing experience behind me, much of what I am doing in WITD feels newer and bolder and braver and truer than anything I've written before. I am learning to trust myself as a writer in new ways, to poke at the places that burn. This is a community I hope to always be a part of.